Kitchen fitter needs advice on tools and costs to do granite.

[jimster_s]

Hi

Im from the UK and I own my own building company. We do lots of kitchens but stay away from granite. We do lots of solid oak though. I want to get into supplying and fitting granite and quartz worktops.

Im currently looking for a ship to open up as a kitchen showroom. I would ideally like to have a granite workshop insite or at the back to so my own granite supply/install.

For now I would be happy buying the cut and polished lengths and just doing the undermount sinks, hobs, corner joints etc and fitting them. If I was to buy the big slabs it would probably be cheaper but im assuming I would need some expensive cutting equipment to cut them down.

For this I wouldn’t need an saw because they are already cut to size, however they are a little more expensive like this. What tools would I need to do the undermount cut outs and the rest of the work?

I know I would need a variable speed grinder to do hand cuts and polishing. Is wet any better than dry? I can see the advantage of dry because you can do work onsite if needed.

Ive seen the undermount sinks cut out by hand using core drills for the corners, a contour blade and sanding/polishing drums but can you really get it good enough doing it free hand?

Ive also seen a local small granite workshop (not actually doing the cuts) but they had some sort of big hand held router with some metal framework attached to it what they used for sink cut outs. The lads told me that it was run along an MDF template and it cut out the undermount sinks. Ive done a bit of research and im told this might be a ghines machine or similar. Is this a good tool for doing undermount sink cutouts? Ive also been told that this can also do the drainer flutes and profile the edges.

The workshop also had a jig setup which looked home-made with a grinder attached to the end to do the drainer grooves. Is this the normal way its done without buying expensive machinery?

I also know of the alpha circular cutters with can be used with a guide to do the 45 degree cuts for the corners.

Profiles: Most profiles that ive seen seem to be flat edge with a very slight 45 degree bevel right on the top edge. What is the best way of doing profiles, can you get them good enough doing them by hand with a grinder?

Rodding: what size and spec of rod is used when rodding round the sinks?

Table: im willing to make my own tables or supports for the granite. Do I need any sort of special table or support especially for when im using the rail saw or doing the undermount sink cut outs? My friend is a sheet metal worker and can weld me any sort of table, or I can make my own out of wood etc.

What tools and what sort of cost would I be looking at to start up? Ive probably got a budget of a few thousand pounds GBP, however if I had to spend more then I would. For the first year I would be happy doing upto 1 kitchen per week (supply and fit) so im not after opening up a huge workshop.

What is the correct way to do the L shaped corners in kitchens. Ive seen it done with a 45 degree cut on both sides and then put together and filled and ive also seen the sides butted upto each other and then filled. The 2nd way seems to produce a wider joint due to the profiles on the edges and id assume the 1st was is the best way to do it. Does anybody cut the profile off the edge and then but the two sides upto each other?

How hard and what is needed for creating and filling the joints/seams where two slabs meet each other?

Will the dvds you sell teach me everything needed from getting a big slab, to cutting it down, making the profiles, doing the undermount sinks, making the drainer flutes, making the joints/seams and actually fitting, filing and sealing the worktops?

Thanks for any advice.

[Mark D.]

You would still need a saw to cut them to length, but you can improvise straight cuts with a Skilsaw and a straight edge and the right blade for cutting granite.

You would use the variable speed grinder for cutting with straight blades, concave blades, grinding cups and core bits. You can use it for dry diamond polishing pads, but if you do engineered stone (you said quartz, normally that means engineered stone) you HAVE to wet polish it or you will burn it!
All things being equal, wet pads polish faster and last longer than dry pads. Given the choice I like to polish wet as it is easier and faster to match the factory finish of the stone.

You can do undermount sinks very well by hand, but they will never be perfect. There might be a slight wave in the arc or the straight cut since you hand polished it. If you want perfect get a CNC machine, but if you are not making at least 5 – 10 sinks a week it does not pay to have one as they are expensive.

A good profiler is a time saver, and when you use it with a template it makes a better finished product. By that I mean it is closer to perfect than a hand finished job, but if you use the router for making the hole but not polishing it you are back to the hand polishing wave…

For the drainer board, you can do it that way or you can make your own jig.

There are many profile shapes available and you can look them up. The most popular here in the states are the V, B, F, E profiles – full bullnose, demi bullnose, ogee and 45 degree bevel, but there are many to choose from. Once you have developed the skill to polish ( it is a skill, it’s not like hanging a picture on the wall) you can proficiently hand polish any edge detail.

The rodding depends on the stone, its thickness and its fragileness (is that even a word?). Generally speaking you cut a slot into the back of the stone that goes less than halfway into it. You then add a “backbone” of steel or fiberglass and epoxy it into place.

Start up costs can go as high as you let them. If you are not buying any big machinery I think your budget will get you started. As you make a profit in this venture you will want to expand into the machinery if the workload will support it.

Seams are done with either epoxy or polyester resin, usually colored to match the stone. I like poly resin for seams as it is easier to work with. If there is anything structural I go with epoxy.

The dvd’s are an introduction into fabrication. They do not show material handling techniques or drainer flutes, but they show design layout, cutting, edge detail,  laminations, oval sinks, square sinks with rounded corners, installs, seams, repairs etc..

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[jimster_s]

thanks for the reply

do you do the hand routers/profilers?
here we have Twister machines and ghines machines.

ive priced up tools etc in the UK but from what i can see it will work out cheaper to buy from you and pay the shipping and maybe even the import duty. its just a shame you dont do m14  thread tools.

ive been told from a supplier that you can use a variable speed grinder and wet pads to polish wet by just spraying the material once and the pads once and then polishing. they said this will still wet polish because you hardly need any water at all. is this true because it doesnt sound right to me?

when cutting with a grinder, is it normally done dry or is it best to use a wet grinder?

thanks

[Mark D.]

We do have routers and profilers. The twister uses an 8mm or a 10mm thread, but if you need M14 we can get that...we export to Australia and have them special made for them. Let me know what tools you need with m14 and I will tell you how long to get them.

Certain wet pads require very little water and can be run wet to dry, like the Alpha ceramic pads, but most of our wet pads require water to cool them and if you run them wet to dry it may affect the finish on the stone but it will definitely affect the pad's life.

Cutting or grinding with a grinder dry is very common, but all the dry tools we carry may also be run wet. Your choice here, just make sure your wet grinder had enough power to do the job.

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[jimster_s]

Thanks for your help

[blue_can]

One thing that should be borne in mind is that the mains voltage in the US is 110V/60Hz and in the UK it is 220V/50Hz so unless Mark specifically sells 220V equipment the stuff may not work in the UK. But this is good time to buy from the US as the US$ is about 2 to 1 GBP.

[blue_can]

thanks for the reply

do you do the hand routers/profilers?
here we have Twister machines and ghines machines.

ive priced up tools etc in the UK but from what i can see it will work out cheaper to buy from you and pay the shipping and maybe even the import duty. its just a shame you dont do m14  thread tools.

ive been told from a supplier that you can use a variable speed grinder and wet pads to polish wet by just spraying the material once and the pads once and then polishing. they said this will still wet polish because you hardly need any water at all. is this true because it doesnt sound right to me?

when cutting with a grinder, is it normally done dry or is it best to use a wet grinder?

thanks

Over here you can buy some hose (loc-line) which you can use to convert your angle grinder into a wet grinder. It is quite easy to do - and connect the other end to a garden hose.

Here's a picture -

[jimster_s]

that looks good, where can i get one of them? do you sell them mark?

[Mark D.]

No we don't sell a conversion kit. We do sell grinders and wet polishers, and I can get them in 220volt.

Mark

[blue_can]

I actually put together that wet attachment myself using the Loc-line hose (www.loc-line.com) and just some standard plumbing fittings from Home Depot - that's the US version of B&Q in the UK. If you already have an angle grinder it would a simple mod - if you don't you may be better off buying a wet grinder. Souds like Mark can supply you what you need. If you convert a dry grinder to wet don't forget to use a ground fault circuit interrupter to prevent possibly electricuting youself due to the water.

I believe that Loc-line is a US company  so I'm not sure if anyone in the UK sells that. But you may be able to find something similar