New granite tile counter top and back splash

[pengu]

HI,
We just installed a new countertop and backsplash from granite tiles. Looks good, but a grout looks 4 shade lighter than on the chart was. Can we do something with it?
And how can we get a nice "wet look" on the stone ???t? What kind of product can we use?? We are going to seal a grout, do we have to seal a granite tile also?

[Mark D.]

You should ALWAYS seal your granite. Tenax Ager Sealer is a resin based color enhancing stone sealer like no other. It brings out a fuller richer color on the stone, while hiding small scratches. It does not polish stone, but gives it the "wet" look, a great way to cheat when you are polishing hard to reach spots. Tenax Ager Sealer will also solve the problem of color matching between a polished surface previously resined and the lighter colored polished edge of the same material . Here is the link:
http://www.defusco.com/Glues:-Epoxy,-Polyester,-etc.-Ager-Sealer/c82_503/p1437/AGER---1-LITER/product_info.html
Wipe it on and buff it off. Do not put it on too thick or you will have to buff it with steel wool.

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[pengu]

Thanks Mark!!! This is great news. Can I buy only through internet or in Canada, also??
Would this be sealing a grout also or should we seal it first?

[Mark D.]

If you seal it first it acts as a grout release.
You can place the order online but we will bill additional shipping to Canada. Or you can call us at 800-289-6834.

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[pengu]

What do you meen " graut relese"?

[Mark D.]

Using a grout release prevents the grout from sticking to or staining the stone. This is the common practice. By sealing the stone first and then grouting it makes your cleanup after grouting a little easier.

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[pengu]

Hi Mark,
We bought this granite tiles form Home Depot, and they said we don't have to seal it, only the grout.
Do you think they are telling  me something which is not right?
Which sealer can you recommend, I don't want to clean after more residue.
Thanks
Amy

[Mark D.]

Well if the Home Depot person said that then it MUST be true (yes I know that I am being sarcastic).
While some stone is denser than others (Absolute Black is the densest stone worked as granite), it never hurts to spend $25 to insure that your stone has an impregnating sealer on it which will  protect it against acids etching the stone. The sealer will also stainproof it. My Mom always told me not to be "penny wise and dollar foolish" and I think that nit sealing your stone falls into this category.

As far as the granite tiles being presealed that is just plain WRONG! No manufacturer preseals their granite tiles before selling them.

Try this for sealing:
http://www.defusco.com/Glues:-Epoxy,-Polyester,-etc.-Hydrex-Sealer/c82_502/p2095/TENAX-IMPREGNATOR-AND-SEALER---1-LITER/product_info.html

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[Stone Dude]

but some granite is treated with resin, which pretty much eliminates the need to seal many granites. you do not need to ALWAYS seal your granite. and if it does need to be sealed, a "sealer" or impregnator will NOT stain proof it. and to use sealer as a grout release is ludicrous. if the granite is so dense, or treated with resin that it does not absorb water then it wont stain! so whats the point of putting an impregnator on it. if it doesnt absorb liquid, it will NOT absorb any sealer. impregnators do not protect the surface, they settle below the surface, to prevent penetration. so if you apply an impregnator properly, and buff it off before it dries, and it is in fact below the surface and not on top, how is it going to act as a grout release if its not there? and if you leave some sealer on the surface to act as a grout release, youre going to have a hell of a time getting the residue off, and youre spending how much money to use sealer as a grout release? there are plenty of easier and more cost effective ways to remove grout residue than wasting money on a sealer. now for this situation you should simply put some water on the stone and leave it for ten minutes. if you wipe it off and there is no absorption of the water, then it will not absorb any sealer, and you will have only the illusion that it was "sealed". the best impregnators on the market will not stainproof any stone.

[Mark D.]

Cameron,
That's just not right. You should always seal granite. It is foolish not to protect your investment.
Also, it is a grout release, and if you knew about mineral sealers like Hydrex you would know that it doesn't need to be buffed off.
The effects of using it as a grout release and stainproofing agent really come into play when you are dealing with more difficult grouts, specifically epoxy grout.
I understand your passion for stone, but since all granite breathes, all granites would benefit from a sealer.

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[Stone Dude]

im sorry but thats not true. this is based off scientific fact, not my opinion. you are misinforming consumers, and scaring them into thinking they they have to seal every piece of stone in sight. there are some "granites" that will etch because they do contain some calcium. but when you say you must seal all granite that is not correct. and even if the hydrex is good for a grout release, how much does in cost? why on earth would want to spend that much just to get grout off. if you grout it properly in the first place you shouldnt even have that problem. a granite that is dense enough to deny water penetration will in no way benefit from an impregnator. if it wont penetrate how will it stain? it just doesnt make sense. i stand by this because it is legitimate scientific fact, not because i like to think so.

[Mark D.]

Cameron,
Point 1 - You have already said that all granite can be etched, even true granites that contain no calcium.
Point 2 - an impregnating mineral based sealer protects granite from acids penetrating it.
You say I am trying to generate sales by scaring customers, and that they shouldn't spend the money to do it. If you have ever worked with epoxy grout between tiles then you know it can stain granite!
We want people to seal their stone as it is the cheapest way to protect their investment. By doing it they are protecting the surface against chemicals. While it won't prevent the stone from scratching or breaking it will protect it against liquids penetrating it. It is much better than no protection, even against Hydrofluoric acid (and while it will help a spill from this chemical I know it won't help if you bathed the stone in hydrofluoric acid).

Here are some facts for you:
1- ALL granite can etch, although the ones containing calcium are more likely to etch faster and easier than "true" granites with no calcium.
2 - An average granite kitchen has 75-80 square feet of stone.
3 - 1 liter of Hydrex is enough to seal 160-180 square feet of polished granite.
4 - Since there is no reside and you don't have to buff it off after application anyone can use this product to seal a kitchen in less than half an hour, and that is doing 2 coats!

A liter of this costs less than $25 and will do 2 kitchens. It dries completely invisible and with no residue. It impregnates the stone and protects it against acids from penetrating the stone. So I guess my question to you is what type of advise are you giving? I mean when you consider that it costs that little and protects the stone's surface why wouldn't you seal the granite?

Glad to be of service,
Mark

[Stone Dude]

granite without calcium will etch with hydroflouric acid, and you didnt have a clue about that untill i said something in a previous post. even with a sealer, its not going to help against acid etching. and i didnt say anything about you generating sales, and its not cool that you put words in my mouth. i dont understand why you would want to seal before grouting. then you have to reseal the grout after. i guess if youre a homeowner and have the time and the money, why not. an acid doesnt have to penetrate to etch. it just doesnt make any logical sense that an impregnator that does what its designed to do (go beneath the surface) can act as a grout release to remove grout from the surface when its not actually on the surface? how does that make any sense. if it works it works, and theres nothing wrong with that. we can argue all day but thats not what i want to do. its your site, you can tell people whatever you want.

[Mark D.]

Cameron,
Actually, I thought all granite could etch, then you corrected me in a post stating "true granites without calcium can't etch", then you said that certain chemicals will etch any granite ( you are right about me not knowing about Hydrofluoric acid though...I did not know that one). So I deferred to your wisdom only to have you recant it later...but such is life. I still think you are very knowledgeable about stone, even if we disagree about sealing it.
In regards to grout staining stone, the problem isn't that the grout is on the surface, the staining occurs when the grout gets into the micropores. If you can't get it out it stays there, appearing as a stain! That is why the sealer is helpful as it prevents the grout from penetrating to the bottom of the micropores allowing you to clean it easily.

About sealing grout -
If it is an epoxy grout it is sealed. It is so dense that it won't harbor bacteria anyways.
But for sanded and nonsanded grouts, the only real way to seal them is to bury them under acrylic or epoxy or some other resin. There really is no way to seal these type of grouts with any kind of a sealer like you would use for stone. This is due to the nature of the grout. Everytime someone steps on these type of grouts they will slightly crush it ( think small...bigger than microscopic, but nevertheless small), then instead of being sealed it will be porous. Then it will retain dirt, dust and moisture which can turn into mold, mildew and muck.
If you seal a grout joint with a solution it really has no lasting effect. If you doubt this ask anyone who has used a grout sealer in a high traffic area - the grout still gets darker over time.
Although I believe you should always seal granite, marble & travertine I never recommend a sealer for grout as they just don't work (unless you bury it under acrylic as I stated above). I do recommend cleaning grout joints as it is a fairly easy thing to do if you know what to work with (I think I will make a do it yourselfer dvd on this).
I am not trying to argue with you, but I still believe that in this forum, which is basically set up for the home owner and do it yourselfer, that sealing granite is a cheap way to protect your investment. Even if the granite was already sealed and it was a waste of time it doesn't cost much for some good old peace of mind.

I apologize for having offended you.
I await your response,
Mark

[Stone Dude]

i am not personally offended,  but like you said i am passionate about my work. as far as the grout i disagree but i dont really want to get into that. there are many exceptions when it comes to sealing. if the customer insists then by all means let them have that comfort of knowing its protected.