Granite contractors who don't template to account for slightly untrue walls

[plum]

Hello all,

I am at my wit's end here, and I hope you can help me. I have been looking for a reputable and reasonably priced granite place for a while now, and I finally found one that has an A- rating on the BBB, 22 years in business, and great reviews on multiple forums/sites. They also have very reasonable prices and a HUGE selection of granite.

One problem- They estimator who came out today to measure told me that I would have a 1/2" gap where the granite meets the back wall, and also about a 1/4" gap where the granite will meet a floor to ceiling 24" deep cabinet due to my walls not being true. I said, "Yes, but isn't that what templating is for? To make sure you are accounting for the slightly imperfect angle?" He said "We don't need to do a template because the shape is so basic, and the saw only cuts straight." My walls are not bowed- they are perfectly straight, just not at an exact 90 degree angle.

So of course I googled, and almost every site (and a few videos) that I found show that this is EXACTLY what templating is for. I saw the fabricator use luan, scribe and then trim down so that the template was a nice tight fit even though the walls were not perfect.

I called a number of other granite places here, and ALL of them claim that if the walls are not exactly true, there WILL be gaps- not only that, but they have written in their contracts that they are not responsible for those gaps!

I consider myself to be a reasonable person, and I find this ridiculous. What are my options here? Should I insist on an EXACT template being made? Should I show this guy the video of another fabricator scribing the luan panels and ask that he do the same? Should I make the darn template myself??

I am attaching the drawing I made of my proposed granite, and I put arrows pointing to the walls where the gaps will be.

Thanks for reading this long-winded post, but I need advice!

[Mark D.]

Where would the gaps be? If it is between the backsplash and the wall that is commom because they aren't true. You can't bend granite like a luan strip.
Can you tell me where on the dawing the voides would be located?
Mark

[plum]

Hi Mark, Thanks for the quick reply...

Like I said in my first post, the gaps would be where the arrows are on the drawing- one 1/2" between the granite countertop (no backsplash yet- I will put up a tile backsplash later) and the back wall (drywall), and the other gap would be about 1/4" between the countertop (no backsplash) and the side of a 24" deep x 88" tall cabinet that butts up against the granite counter.

The walls are not exactly true, and my understanding was that this is what templating was for- to replicate the EXACT shape of what the granite needs to be. Like I said, the walls are straight- They are not bowed... They are just not true.

Hope this helps.

[Mark D.]

If they put it on a CNC machine they could make it fit and charge more for the work, but since they are cutting it on a bridgesaw they can only cut in straight lines.

Are you one of those customers that is getting prefabbed or common grade granite and trying to get the kitchen installed for $15 - $20 per foot? This post reads like a joke. Any fabricator could make what you are asking for if you are willing to pay for the work.

Why are you not using backsplashes? They would hide these gaps and protect your wall and cabinet. What are you not telling us?

Mark

[plum]

WOW, Mark! Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today, or are you peeved that I called you out on the fact that you clearly did not read/comprehend my first post?

Either way, no need to take a trip to doucheville.

In reply to your riveting post-

No, I am not "one of those customers" who is looking for prefab at $15-20. I never look for the lowest "deal" when it comes to my home. Thus, the reason for my original post- EVERY fabricator I had contacted gave me the same song and dance. I thought it was unreasonable and wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy for expecting more. I am someone who will pay what I need to pay in order to have something done the right way. No problems there.

Unfortunately for me, this is my first time having to contract for granite, and until a few days ago, I didn't know that some companies use bridgesaws and some use CNC fabrication. Fortunately for me though, I take everything a contractor says with a truckload of salt, and decided (despite multiple establishments trying to convince me that "no granite fabricator would be able to cut granite without gaps") to investigate before I settled for something I did not want.

I am so sorry that this post read "like a joke" to you, Mark. Not that I imagine your sense of humor is anything to brag about- but please consider that not all of us are as schooled in the wonderful world of granite as you, sir. Some people come to forums to actually get constructive (gasp!) advice.

I do not want a granite backsplash (like I said in my LAST post- there will be a glass tile one installed after the countertops) because the kitchen is very modern and lines are very minimal. The granite backsplash just does not work with the aesthetic of the kitchen.

At any rate, after I read the tone of your first response, I decided to post on another forum where I found there were quite a few people from my area. They gave me some great recommendations, and of the three rough estimates (based on the drawing I did) I have gotten so far, all three use CNC fabrication and electronic templating- and all three are in the same price range as the hacks I had been dealing with previously.

"What are you note telling us?" lol I dunno, Mark- I thought my first post was fairly detailed and thorough. I uploaded a drawing and noted the areas where I was told gaps would be. Not sure what other information you might have been looking for. Sorry to destroy your dreams of this being a high stakes granite conspiracy.  

Thank you for your valuable time, Mark. Maybe in the future, you can make an effort to actually read posts and then give advice without being condescending. What are you doing on a forum like this if you find it so difficult to do so?

[Mark D.]

Wow - talk about condescending.
Sorry about the assumption I made (which was that you were a pita), but since you stated you "called a number of other granite places here, and ALL of them claim that if the walls are not exactly true, there WILL be gaps" it was the only assumption I could come up with.
If they use a CNC machine they should be able to get close to a zero tolerance on the counter.

Again, my apologies.
Mark

[plum]

lol. Touche.

Nope, not a pita at all... When you are dealing with the place you live in, you want quality- and you have to be willing to pay for it.

Throughout the renovation process, it has really amazed me the kind of sleazballs you have to contend with. There are so many shady and dishonest people out there that you really have to go above and beyond not to get screwed. I must have read installation contracts from 4 granite places here and each one had you signing something that said they are not responsible for gaps due to walls that are not true, or that are bowed. Terrible.

I am vetting out the companies who just gave me these new estimates. Looks great so far.

Apologies too, and thank you.

[Guybor]

Plum,

I am a fabricator and as such will answer as we would do it. (and how others should)

If there are granite splashes, we leave ourselves 1/8" of play room for bowed walls.  If there is tile, we leave 1/16".  With that being said, anywhere that is visible on a front edge, we are tight to the wall/cabinet for 2" back then give ourselves the extra room.  We call these installation "tabs" at our shop.

Why they are telling you that you will have a visible opening on the front is beyond me.  I would question it further and if their answer is not satisfactory, I would look elsewhere.

Now to plug an organization I belong to.....
If you are looking for a fabricator, take a look at the Stone Fabricators Alliance.  A link to a map of fabricators is located here
http://www.stonefabricatorsalliance.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=60

Guy Robertson
Davenport, IA